Do Organized Religions Suppress Women's Rights?

Jeannette and I attended a wonderful panel discussion on Women, Faith, and Society at the U of MN on Thursday night. The event was hosted by Campus Atheists and Secular Humanists, and co-sponsored by the Baha'i Association, Women of Virtue, Hindu Student Society, and the Muslim Student Association.

It was so interesting to hear perspectives from different people who come from different cultures and different belief systems. For the most part, there was agreement among the panelists regarding the suppression of women, and how religion may play a part in that.

The atheist speakers were Cynthia Egli and Nuzi Haneef. Cynthia appeared to hold a grudge against "Conservative Christians," calling them harmful, and that they were invading our schools and government. She didn't cite specific examples of this harm, or examples of suppression by this group, which was unfortunate, because her argument took on an angry, unjustified tone. She believed that religion should be phased out in the world, and that the suppression of women has continued throughout history as a result of religions which have been established by men, for men. Nuzi was more rational. She believed that religion has suppressed women, but it is not a function of religion to suppress women. This was the point the other panelists agreed upon for the most part. She does not believe in a god, but did not advocate for the removal of all religions.

Suhag A, Shukla, a Hindu, described Hindu as a way of life, rather then a religion. Duty is most important, that women and men have different roles. In Hindu, God is half man, and half woman. Through the talk, she stressed how important it is to not judge suppression of women from outside of the culture. A Western woman may see an Indian woman doing certain things, or dressing a certain way, it is important to try to imagine existing in that culture, before determining that legitimate suppression is taking place.

The Women of Virtue, Julianne Moch and Suzi Sunderman, were the most disappointing panelists. It's not because they are Christian, but because they were the least prepared. Every other panelist had notes in front of them, explaining their group's perspective on the suppression on women. These women had no notes, but instead openly admitted to not being academics, but could speak form personal experience. Rather then answering the forum's question, Suzi told a personal story about how she found Jesus. He appeared in her bedroom one night, and saved her from her addiction to sin. Her vice was women, and Jesus cured her from the disease of homosexuality. Julianne mentioned she was in a death spiral before she became born again. that was their response to the question, "Do Organized Religions Suppress Women's Rights?" Suzi was asked why churches are lead by men, why Catholics don't have women popes, or priests. She said she read the Bible front to back, and didn't read any passages which treated women any differently then men. At the end of the discussion, in her closing statements, Suzi, rather then emphasizing her points, which she didn't have any, she took the opportunity to preach. Not only was this unprofessional considering the academic setting of the discussion, but it was disrespectful of all of the different groups in attendance. It was also rude of Cynthia to mention that there should be less religion in the world, but Suzi was seeking converts to be "drenched in the blood of Jesus." Most unprofessional was her closing statement, "God doesn't believe in atheists."

The Muslim representatives, Faiza Hashim, and Jamila Kosobayashi, brought an interesting persepctive. Islam, Faiza mentioned, is the most disorganized religion. While everyone has core beliefs, there are many different was to practice Islam. Islam is so diverse, if you give a monster Islam, they will use it to their advantage. If you are peaceful, you can use it to your advantage. I think that is similar with most religions. You can interpret passages of scripture a certain way, or give emphasis to sections as you wish. A question was raised about Muslim women wearing certain clothes, or overing their faces. Jamila told a story about going on Haig and seeing millions of different women, all dressed differently. The Koran instructs women to dress modestly, and men as well. In different cultures, that means different things. The Bible also instructs women to live modestly in 2 Timothy.

Baha'i is a religion I hadn't heard of before. Ben Milston, and Mona Majid explained a little more about their faith, and how it treats a woman's rights. It fosters understanding and unity. They believe that all religions are noble, and have the same goals for the soul. Equality between men and women is central to Baha'i. Inequality impedes social progress. Scriptures are sexist, but modern society removes male dominance. Without feminism, the world will not know peace. This group appeared the be the most welcoming, and supportive group, right from it's inception. A central theme of the religion is equality, so I don't understand how anyone can criticize this religion for suppressing women.

i hope to attend more panels like this. It was great to hear so many different voices, even if some of them were angry or disrespectful.

Did Jesus Rise from the Dead?

Tonight, Jeannette and I attended a debate between Dr. Robert Price and Rev. Dwight Knight called, "Did Jesus Rise from the Dead?" The debate featured two opposing viewpoints, one that Jesus rose form the dead, and the other, that Jesus may have risen from the dead, but it's pretty unlikely. The bigger question is, does it matter? Reverend Knight contradicted himself on this topic during the debate when asked what it would take for you to believe that Jesus didn't rise from the dead. He responded that even if he had a time machine to view for himself whether the tomb was empty or not, it didn't matter, he would believe Jesus rose from the dead anyway, but that isn't what he bases his faith in Jesus on anyway. In his closing remarks, he quotes Acts regarding Jesus' divinity being dependent on the ascension. He would cease to be a Christian if Jesus didn't rise from the dead.

Dr. Robert Price, when asked what would it take for him to believe that Jesus rose from the dead, answered that he's agnostic on the issue. If he could go back in time, and if to him it seemed more probable that Jesus rose from the dead, then he would believe that Jesus rose from the dead. Dr. Price cites examples of other mythological figures and literary heroes who also rose from the dead, or who fit the hero model of classic literature, for example, who had virgin births, died on a hill, went missing, became king, had his followers turn on him, are killed by his followers, become a god. In discussion after the debate, Dr. Price made a good point. If you turn the Bible into history, you run into trouble with contradictions and different accounts. You can make excuses, like a philosophical argument that each person has their own account of what they see. That may be the case that four different people may describe a table four different ways, but they can all agree that there is a table there. The point is that, do the specifics matter? Did Mary and Mary go to the tomb, or was there just one Mary? Were their angels there? Were they inside or outside the tomb? Does it matter? The answer should be no. Christianity is not some evil religion, but like any religion it can be used for evil. The specifics of the Bible shouldn't be important, nor should the reliance of each word being infallible. You shouldn't have to have the Bible be historically accurate, or else all the good parts become invalidated. It's important to critically look at the Bible, think of why certain things are written the way they were, take a look at other writings around that time, understand the history, and then you'll have a better understanding of your own faith. Even if the Bible is all mythology and folklore, that doesn't mean that you can't be a Christian, or your going to hell if you don't believe that a woman's donkey talked to her, or a burning bush spoke. You can still follow rituals and traditions, recite incantations. That doesn't mean you are a fool, but you'll be better off focusing on your faith, and things you can't prove, then by trying to justify your faith through proving historical facts. There were great questions after the debate, like Luke's treatment of women in his gospel, the Sumerian origins of the pre-flood patriarchs, and why would Jesus be so upset about dying if he knew he was going to rise from the dead three days later. A girl in the classroom was upset because Dr. Price trivialized Jesus' suffering before death, that he not only physically suffered, but suffered spiritually. Spiritual suffering isn't mentioned in the Bible. She urged everyone to read the Bible, and find the truth. A number of us in the room said, "We have!" I think there is a feeling that, as atheists, we are ignorant of the Bible. There are a number of other myths about atheists, such as, atheists can not be moral or ethical, you can't know there is no God, because you can't prove he doesn't exist, atheists seek to remove religion from society, and atheists are smug and arrogant. Atheists can be, and often are, very moral people. Morality does not come from religion, but is a means for sustainable society which has developed over time. Atheists don't have to prove the non existence of God, just as atheists or theists don't have to prove the non existence of Zeus. Atheists don't try to push atheism on people, or seek to remove religion from society. However, atheists do try to remove theism from government and schools, so people have the freedom to make your own choice. Some atheists are smug and arrogant, just as there are smug and arrogant people who follow religions. People also believe that atheists have no purpose in life, so their lives are empty. I believe that life is meant to be lived. You shouldn't be good for fear that God will send you to hell otherwise. If you want to help someone, don't just pray for them, but do something. If your friend needs help overcoming an addiction, help them, go with them to treatment. If your kid is sick, don't just pray they'll get better, take them to a doctor. If you are angry with another group of people, don't blow yourself up for God so you can go to heaven with your 70 new virgins.

There were about 200 people at the debate, from both sides. The debate was put on by Christian Believers On Campus, and CASH, Campus Atheists and Secular Humanists. I thought both sides were well debated.